Yesteryear | Christy, Briana, Cate, & the Shan

What price are you willing to pay for perfection? Who are you willing to sacrifice to create an enviable illusion? In the novel Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke, "tradwife" influencer, Natalie Heller Mills, will stop at nothing to curate a flawless image for her millions of followers. But when Natalie mysteriously wakes up in the year 1855, she'll be forced to reckon with the life she claimed to be living. In today's conversation, Christy speaks with Shan, Briana, and Cate about this highly provocative read. They'll explore themes around misogyny, performative social media behavior, and societal expectations of motherhood. This is a story that will leave you pondering long after the last page is turned. 

Book Club Read

Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke

https://russelllibrary.lcicatalog.org/search/card?id=6497e564-8042-55e0-999c-54be543177e9&entityType=FormatGroup

Intro Music by nikitsan

Transcript

Yesteryear

Christy: [00:00:00] Cheers. Welcome to Top Shelf with the librarians of Russell Library. Today, we have Kate, Brianna, Shannon, and myself, Christi, and we're so happy that you're joining us today. On Top Shelf, you'll hear about compelling reads from the people who know books best. Our librarians will sh- share titles that connect to a unique theme each episode.

Christy: We'll offer glimpses into what we're doing here at Russell Library, and hopefully spark inspiration to bring to your own community. We're excited to turn the page with you. The focus of today's show is a little bit different. We decided that the four of us will be talking about the same book for this episode.

Christy: We decided to cover the topic of Yesteryear by Carol Claire Burke because it's just that good. A quote from Ink and Imaginings: "Yesteryear is the book everyone is [00:01:00] going to be talking about this season, and for good reason. Carol Claire Burke's debut takes the tradwife influencer phenomenon and asks, what happens when the curated fantasy of pioneer domesticity becomes literal?

Christy: The answer is darker, funnier, and more unsettling than you'd expect." End quote. So this has been one of the most talked about books of 2026. The novel serves as a sharp, biting critique of internet culture, tradwife phenomenon, and the toxic gap between curated online identities and lived realities. So ladies, we're gonna talk a little bit about how you picked this book up and what drew you to it.

Christy: Shan, I'll start with you. 

Shannon: Okay. So what's fun to do on the desk sometimes as a librarian is research books and the books that are coming out for the coming year. So I was just, like, I think on a list, I don't know, like, magazines bring them out all the time. This is what we do. And I was [00:02:00] like, Yesteryear, ooh.

Shannon: Like, tradwife, ooh. Like, what's going on here? And honestly, it was the whole, like, tradwife phenomenon that actually drew me in completely, and I put it on hold. And then it came in, and funny enough, I think as soon as I picked up my hold, you were like, "Oh, I just read that." 

Briana: Oh, yeah. 

Shannon: You did. I don't remember.

Shannon: I don't remember that, but that sounds about right. Oh my God, you did. You did, Brianna. And then Christi's like, "Ooh, what, didn't you have it on hold, too?" Yes. Both, both the books came off hold for us, and we were like, "Oh, I can't wait to read this." And you're like, "Yeah, I just finished that. It's not what you're gonna expect whatsoever."

Shannon: Mm-hmm. So I will be honest, I actually didn't physically read the copy 'cause my life got crazy, so I listened to it. Yes. And listening to it, I think, put a different emphasis on it than more so than reading it. Mm-hmm. So I'm curious to see, 'cause you guys all read the ph- 

Christy: The physical copy. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Shannon: Yeah.

Shannon: Yeah. And I only listened to the audiobook. Nice. And it was like, whoa. 

Christy: Was the author the narrator? 

Shannon: I don't believe so 

Christy: [00:03:00] Yeah, okay 

Shannon: But don't quote me on that Yeah, yeah I just listened to it on Spotify 

Christy: Yeah, perfect 

Shannon: So, yeah 

Christy: Yeah, Brianna, you had it first. 

Briana: Yeah. So I became aware of it because of Bookstagram, 'cause people were starting to post about this book, and I was like, "Oh, that is completely up my alley," and I like to read the things that are gonna be really buzzy.

Shannon: Mm-hmm. 

Briana: And once I read it, I was like, "Oh, no, this is gonna be huge." And I also love The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, and they kind of- Like they're trying to break away from that traditional, like trad wife type of energy, which is very t- typically found in the Mormon culture. Um, so because I love them, I was like, "Oh, trad wife.

Briana: This is gonna be crazy." And it's crazy. 

Shannon: But I think with like MomTok though, that's like a parallel to this. Oh. With like Natalie's, like her whole Instagram feed and everything- Yeah ... and her social media presence. 

Briana: Mm-hmm. 

Shannon: That like the, the Mormon wives became famous because of- Mm-hmm ... [00:04:00] MomTok. Well- 

Briana: Right?

Briana: Swinging scandal, then MomTok. 

Shannon: Oh, the- it was that? Okay, sorry. 

Briana: They're all related, but yeah. They're all 

Shannon: related? Okay. 

Christy: Definitely parallels. 

Briana: But very- 

Christy: Yeah ... 

Briana: yeah. Yeah. For sure. 

Christy: Yeah, and I, I think you had gone to get it before. 

Briana: I went and bought it. Yeah. I was like, I'm buying it- Before vacation ... as soon as it comes out, and I read it 'cause I was gonna bring it on vacation.

Briana: I'm like, "No, I wanna read this now." You finished it 

Christy: before you left. 

Briana: Yeah. I had to. I like, I couldn't put it down. 

Christy: So all that really inspired me to read it because I- 

Briana: Mm-hmm ... 

Christy: I'm afraid to say I have FOMO when it comes to new books. I need to- Mm-hmm ... I need to be up on what is happening and, and this sounded really interesting for sure.

Christy: And Kate, how did you kinda come across it? 

Cate: You, Christine. 

Christy: Thank 

Cate: you. You and Brianna. I- Yeah. ... wasn't even going to be on this episode- Mm-hmm ... and then you mentioned the book to me, and I was like immediately all in. 

Shannon: Mm-hmm. 

Cate: And I am particularly fascinated by this whole trad wife phenomenon because I think it speaks to so much of what's going on under the surface- Mm-hmm

Cate: for women, this like [00:05:00] staggering disconnect with the sacred feminine, the completely impossible standards of womanhood, and also this desire to get back to something simpler. But there's this dark underbelly to the whole thing that we need to talk about. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh my God, that was so well said. That was so beautifully said.

Cate: That was so well said. Very 

Christy: powerful, and I think that's what drew a lot of people to the book. 

Cate: Yeah. 

Christy: You know, they wanna find out more about... So in case somebody's not familiar with Yesteryear- Yeah ... I, I will just quickly talk a little bit about what the book is about 'cause we- Yes ... we probably should let people know in case they haven't read it before.

Christy: Yeah. Oh, God. That's probably a good idea. Yeah. So our, our main character, our main person is Natalie, and she is married and has a very large family, and has started this whole business, it sort of as a, um, an, a media... Uh, I'm sorry, an Instagram influencer, and she sells like her [00:06:00] sourdough to- sourdough tutorials.

Christy: Um, she has cookware, and she does a lot of like very, you know, unfortunately stuff made in China- Mm-hmm ... that she's selling, like her cutting boards and all this- Mm-hmm ... other kind of trademark stuff. And now she is really a huge influencer on Instagram. So it's sort of the story of her religion- She's the person that's holding the whole family together, but yet she's supposed to be submissive to, you know, her husband.

Christy: He's supposed to be really the person that's bringing in the, the bacon. Her husband is a very wealthy man, uh, and her- his father is a senator. So there's a lot going on. But then the, the main thing that happens is that Natalie suddenly wakes up in the 1850s, and she doesn't know if she's gone back in time or what is going on.

Christy: So that's where the book kind of opens. Like, has she time traveled? Um, what is actually happening to her? So I think people really picked up this book hoping that [00:07:00] Natalie was gonna get hers, you know, 'cause I don't think I've met a more unlikable main character in a really long time. I know. Mm-hmm. So what did you guys think?

Christy: Like, what was your first impression? Like, what kind of emotions did this spark for you? Who wins the- 

Briana: I mean, I kind of said ew. 

Christy: Yeah. I was like, "Oh." I 

Briana: was like, "I don't like you that much, but I'm still gonna keep reading anyway." 

Christy: Yeah, 'cause you w- it's like a train wreck. Yeah. You, you wanna know what's gonna happen.

Briana: Mm-hmm. 

Christy: Yeah. 

Cate: I think that she, this character really tapped into the perversion of looking perfect on the surface, but being rotten underneath. Mm. Yeah. Kind of like a shiny apple with maggots in the center. Yeah. That's how I, that's how I saw. And the, the emotion that I tapped into was anger at, um- You know, because this whole mom influencer thing, this idea of having a literal barrier between you and your child, that to [00:08:00] me is it seems harmless at first, but you completely lose all sense of connection with your, with your kid.

Cate: And as someone with older, you know, with young adult children, those early years are... I mean, all the years, but those are critical, and think of how many moments she missed by creating this ridiculous false reality. 

Christy: Right. It's all curated. Mm-hmm. 

Cate: Completely curated. You know, 

Christy: doing this stuff over and over again, like showing herself baking bread that it got baked eventually- Mm-hmm

Christy: but mostly it was just like the whole thing. She has like a little bit of spilled flour on the counter. Like, there's, you know, candles or whatever. It, it's not empty. Mm. She's actually curating even the mess. 

Shannon: Yes. So I can see where you, the anger comes in. I felt anger and kind of disgust and ew and how can you do this, but as the book goes on, she's a very complicated character because- Yeah

Shannon: uh, the parts when she's back in the 1850s, I'm kind of like, "Whatever." I'm like, "You know [00:09:00] what? This is what you deserve. Deal with it." But when you're hearing the backstory of how Natalie came to be and you're, like, peeling back those onions, Shrek. Um, sorry. No, she's really complicated, and then you kind of also feel sorry for her.

Christy: Mm-hmm. 

Shannon: You know? When all these other events start happening to her, and then you, when you're kind of recognizing certain things. I don't know if we're gonna say some spoilers here. I'm just gonna say that. 

Christy: So why don't we, why don't we say, like, I think from this point on we'll- spoilers are okay. So if you haven't read Yesteryear yet, definitely come back and listen to the rest of the episode- 

Shannon: Yeah

Christy: 'cause it's really hard to talk about this book. 

Shannon: It's hard 'cause her mental health is declining. 

Christy: Yes. 

Shannon: Mm-hmm. And it's very apparent at certain points, and you're kind of like, "Have you always been this way?" 

Christy: Mm-hmm. 

Shannon: And it was just unrecognized because of the way you grew up and, like, the culture and life that you lived in?

Shannon: What also is just, like, sad about her is her lack of forgiveness that she could give to [00:10:00] people. So. 

Christy: Yeah, she, she holds onto things. 

Shannon: She holds onto things very deep. Very 

Christy: much. 

Shannon: So. I- But she gave me a lot of different emotions, like anger, disgust, pity- 

Cate: Mm. Yeah ... 

Shannon: I would say. I also don't have children, so you're also looking at it a different perspective as well- Yeah

Shannon: which is cool. 

Cate: Yeah, I mean, it, it definitely... Y- to be, to be a truly connected parent, you have to be embodied, you have to be present. And you can't be that way when you're trying to make it look a certain way. Mm-hmm. Because parenthood is messy, and it's raw, and it's all those things that don't need to be on display in order to really do it with the care that it deserves.

Christy: Yep. 

Cate: And she lost that. Mm-hmm. So I, I did feel pity for her and for her children, 

Christy: so. Mm-hmm. So she has, at this point in, when we sort of dive into the book, she has six. Mm-hmm. And she's pregnant with another child. But her, her firstborn, she seems to have had postpartum depression- Mm ... and had really a very big [00:11:00] disconnect between her and her little girl, who's Clementine, and just she didn't even want her, and yet she goes on to have five more kids.

Shannon: Yep. 

Christy: So what are some of your thoughts on the people that are in Yesteryear, and did you change your mind at all on them as the book progressed? 

Shannon: The husband? 

Christy: So Caleb. 

Shannon: I think I just... Caleb back in 18, old, new Caleb, what does she call him? Old Caleb. Old Caleb. Old Caleb in ni- 1850, he's, like, the epitome of, like, what she always wanted.

Cate: Yep. 

Shannon: You know? And it's like, and this is also the man that is supposed to be in her social media feed. This is supposed to be her husband that people assume they see. But then Caleb, her husband, he just sucks the whole time. Yeah. 

Christy: He has no spine, and he just has, like, no ambition at all. 

Shannon: And wasn't he, like, look- I don't know, with his computer and stuff, and he's, like, going into, like, this different dark hole of the internet?

Shannon: Yes. 

Christy: It was the man- was it the manosphere? The manosphere. Yeah. Definitely. He went 

Shannon: into the 

Christy: manosphere. 

Shannon: The 

Christy: early manosphere. 

Shannon: And [00:12:00] I'm like, you just are terrible. And even when we get to the end and find everything out, he's still 

Cate: terrible. 

Christy: He's even worse. Yeah. 

Cate: Why are you doing this to your wife? He's just, he's a, he's a puppet from the moment- Yeah

Cate: he's born- Yeah ... throughout his life. But I will say, just to play devil's advocate, I feel like the one glimmer for Caleb was when h- when she, she planted the seed of this life to live- Mm. Mm ... you know, closer to the land and all this, I do feel like there was a potential for that to be genuine for him, and I think if she had been more honest and if he had actually taken accountability for his life and learned some skills and actually committed to that life- Mm-hmm

Cate: he could have grown a spine, and he could have actually created something- Mm-hmm ... meaningful and real. But he didn't. He just allowed himself to be puppeted, and to your point, at the end, I almost feel like I need to reread it because I was so focused on Natalie that I need to read it with Caleb in [00:13:00] mind, because he was like a, just a new perversion at the end.

Shannon: At the end. And that's a good point- Mm-hmm ... 'cause you're just thinking about her like, "Oh, my God, this is what's been happening to her this whole time." Yeah. But also he cheated on her with Shannon. Yeah. And that's my name. Which I did not like. She is not a cool Shannon. 

Christy: She is not. So Shannon shows up. She's got pink hair.

Christy: She's- Mm-hmm ... I think 19, and she's gonna be the new, um, person that's the videographer, and she really takes them in a whole new direction. Mm-hmm. I mean, they, they have all these followers, but- Mm-hmm ... she just really curates a whole new kind of, um, experience for the, the viewers. Except, as she's filming all this, she realizes, oh, pesticides are being used, and you're not supposed to be doing this if you're growing things organically.

Christy: Mm-hmm. Oh, there's things that are happening in the barn that shouldn't be happening to these animals. Mm-hmm. And these children are just... There's, they have nannies. They have people that are helping cook and clean and all, you know. Yeah. It's certainly not an 1850s kind of life- No ... in any [00:14:00] way, shape, or form.

Christy: But, um, this is, this is sort of what's going on with Shannon. She's dropped into their lives, and she also ends up giving the eldest daughter a phone- 

Shannon: Yeah ... 

Christy: saying that her phone has gone missing. So now one of the kids has a phone, which had never happened before. 

Shannon: Mm-mm. 

Christy: So it's, it's a very pivotal part of, of the story.

Christy: Mm-hmm. It provides, like, this very deep psychological dive into, like, an unreliable, deeply flawed protagonist. There's, you know, we're navigating the ironies of nostalgia, the dangers of this kind of vanity on Instagram. So I wanted to touch on having social media, um, having your child be involved, so, like, being on, um, social media and having the exposure in such a constant way, and they're not giving their consent.

Christy: They're just now, their lives are, are being included without them having a say in it, and I wanted to touch a little bit on that, 'cause it's not like having, you know, your Facebook [00:15:00] post so your grandparents can see your, your child- Mm-hmm ... or even just sending pictures to a small group- Mm-hmm ... of people.

Christy: This is someone with a million followers, and she... Or more than that, six million, I think, or something crazy. And- It's a curated experience. Obviously, the kids are not experiencing life like this at all. They may even have to have done something multiple times to get the right cut, and they're little kids.

Christy: Mm. So I'd like to know your thoughts on that. Kate, do you wanna- It makes me- Go ahead. Yeah, Brianna ... I was gonna say, it 

Briana: makes me think of, like, Ruby Franke and, like, that family- 

Christy: Yeah ... 

Briana: and how awful that turned out, and those kids had no say either- Right, 

Christy: right ... 

Briana: until they were either basically exiled from their own families, the older ones, or sent away, and then just they were treated horrendously.

Briana: And- 

Christy: So you can just give a little background. 

Cate: Yeah. Yeah, I know who that is. 

Briana: I'm gonna do a bad job of describing it, but basically Ruby Franke was an influencer on YouTube, and they had a family channel. The same way that Natalie was making a profit off of her kids, this family was doing the same thing, and it was just like it started off very innocently.[00:16:00]

Briana: Um, but then it just got to the point where Ruby was just so focused on, like, making money, like, getting followers, like, went down this dark hole with some other kind of crazy person and ended up doing some very terrible things to her children, all kind of in the name of influencing and getting this big following.

Briana: Um, so it just kind of spiraled out of control, and so this whole time I was thinking, like That is what happened here. Like, it just went horrifically wrong in the end, and it's unfortunate. So it's like, I know if I ever had kids, I probably wouldn't want them on socials until they were old enough to understand what you're doing on there, and I wouldn't put them on mine unless it was, like, a private channel, you know?

Briana: Yeah, absolutely. Like, it just feels icky. Mm-hmm. Like, even on TikTok, like, I see people that have, like, channels and they're showing their kids off and, like, I don't know. I'm like, "You don't know who's watching when it's public." That's just icky to me. I don't know. 

Shannon: Well, if you think back, like, so now we're in this influencer era, but when we were kids, think of all the Hollywood, like, teenage [00:17:00] stars- 

Briana: Yeah

Shannon: and how messed up- That's true ... they became. Like, poor Amanda Bynes. Like, being in a constant spotlight like that, and, like, of course their parents were, you know, doing most of that when they're children. Mm-hmm. Um, but they're not okay, and now we have this whole uncharted territory of social media and the internet, and it's just kinda like this wouldn't be okay.

Shannon: No. Because it- they're humans, they have their own rights, and you shouldn't be exploiting them. 

Christy: Mm-hmm. 

Shannon: Yeah, I just, I find it weird. 

Christy: Mm. 'Cause they're vulnerable. Yeah. I mean, so, like, with Amanda Bynes or say Britney Spears or somebody- Yeah ... that we've seen, like, unravel in public. Any childhood star ever. Yeah.

Christy: Is messed- absolutely. With them, it was, like, select, curated, like, this is- Yeah ... like, a perfect life, and Natalie has it, like, in the home. So they don't even get that delineation- Mm-hmm ... of, like, this is my private life. There is no private life. There is none. There's none. Mm-hmm. 

Cate: I think it can start really innocently too of like, "Oh, you know, my kids are so cute, and [00:18:00] let's share this little special moment," and then all of a sudden you're curating your children's lives.

Cate: And wait, you didn't get it right that time. Let's do it again. Mm-hmm. Let's do it again. Let's do it again. You know? And they're... You completely take over their lived experience, their- Mm-hmm ... embodied experience, and you are creating something- You're creating fiction in their real lives. Like, that's just, it's...

Cate: The, the more I think about it and the deeper I go, the, the worse it feels, and, like, the, the deeper the implications are to, to their, their whole life. It's just... I, I don't know. Even if you go to the park and you see kids and parents, and they're like, "Look over here, look over here, look over here," and they're constantly trying to pull their kids' experience away from just playing, and, you know, they...

Cate: Or they don't look quite right, so they want them to look at a different direction or stand in a different place. It's, it's like their kid, the kid can't even trust their own, their own feeling in their, in their body and in their life. It's just, I don't know, icky is the word. [00:19:00] Mm-hmm. Icky is, icky is the word.

Cate: Yeah. I think the best way 

Shannon: to say 

Cate: it. 

Christy: Yeah. No, we've definitely seen it even here at the library. Mm-hmm. You know, people are trying to, you know, show off their child in a certain light. Sometimes they're like, "Oh, turn this way so, 'cause the lighting's better." Yeah. And I think, "Oh, boy." 

Cate: People. Oh, 

Christy: sorry. Go. Well, I would say- But not judgy, just, you know, I, I think it's something that's just commonplace now.

Cate: Well, and I think, you know, for Christi and I, we're older than the two of you. When we were kids, there was maybe an awkward family photo taken once a year, you know? Oh, 

Christy: 100%. Yeah. 

Cate: And there was... You know, if it was a birthday party- Mm-hmm ... maybe... I don't have a single good picture of myself as a child. I'm dirty.

Cate: Um, like there's, you know, like food all over the place- Yeah ... and popsicles dripping. Like, it was never to look a certain way. 

Christy: No. 

Cate: And there's not that many of them- Right ... and none of them were digital. Like, so there was- Mm-hmm ... no footprint apart from the, the photo album at your grandma's house, and this is a whole different world.

Cate: It is- Right ... uncharted. '[00:20:00]

Christy: Cause it's their lunch. It's their, you know, whatever. Everything. It's everything. Yep. It's, you know, they, maybe they changed their outfit, you know, and now it, you know- 

Briana: No, that's literally it. 

Christy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So thousands- Like- ... and thousands of pictures, and it's, it's something. 

Shannon: Well, the social media, like, sphere, whatever it is, it's just curated even beyond children.

Shannon: Mm-hmm. You know, we always joke, it's like, oh, the couple looks so happy all the time, and now they're, like, broken up or divorced. And you're like, but they curated their whole life on this, and this is what they did. But it's like, were they really happy underneath it all? Yeah. And now you're gonna curate your child's life for your own, I don't know, instant gratification.

Cate: Yeah. Yeah. 

Shannon: Rather than just having gratification for- Taking a disposable camera and having a good time, and seeing how the pictures come out. Mm. Sometimes they don't come out at all. Most of the 

Christy: time. Most of the time, but- You're like, "

Shannon: Oh, that was a blank film? 

Christy: Weird. How'd that happen?" I know we used to do doubles when we get the film developed.

Christy: Yes. Yes. And then you'd have doubles with, like, these terrible pictures, but still 

Shannon: multiples. They're so bad. [00:21:00]

Christy: But, like, appearance versus re- versus reality. Like, did you guys think differently about your own socials at all after reading this? 

Briana: I think I stopped caring. Like, I've... It took me a long time to actually get to a point of not caring, 'cause I cared way too much, like, especially in college and high school.

Briana: And so I had to step away and be like, "Actually, I don't care what anybody else thinks. I'm gonna post whatever I want. Who cares if, like, two people like it?" So it's just, who cares? Like- 

Christy: Yeah ... 

Briana: caring that much gets you there? No. Like, I'm good 

Christy: There was a TV show, I think it was probably Mom Talk, that I watched a little bit of, or maybe- The Real 

Briana: Housewives of Mormon Wives?

Christy: One 

Briana: of them. No, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. 

Christy: That, right. 

Briana: Was it that one? 

Christy: Where, like, the mom, she's telling her mom that she's pregnant, and her mom said, "Oh," you know, something about a comment that she made and it only had 23 likes or something. And I thought- Oh ... "Oh, dear God." Mm. Like, this is a conversation that should not be on the air, first of all.

Christy: No. And then second of all- Yeah ... your mom is talking about how many likes she got in this very [00:22:00] personal conversation that you're having? Mm. And I, I just... That, I was thinking about that when I was reading Estere Year, because- Mm ... who, nobody's gonna care. 

Shannon: Yeah. 

Christy: Nobody's gonna remember that- Nobody cares ... you know, in the future.

Christy: Mm-hmm. They're... She's going to remember what happened when she and her mom had this conversation. Yeah. And probably a lot of other people will too, because they viewed it- Yeah. Yeah ... even though it should have really been a personal moment. But yeah, so, like, reality as opposed to appearances. I mean, we all wanna look good.

Christy: We don't necessarily wanna have a picture posted. Yeah. But now I think people look at the pictures when you take them, and you're like, "Nope, nope, not that one." Ah. "Not this one." Yeah. You know? I have- Yeah, that's 

Shannon: okay ... friends like that. I just came back from a bachelorette. There is over, like, 1,000 photos in a shared album.

Shannon: Can I tell you how many I added? Zero. But what did I do bring? Disposable cameras. 

Cate: Yeah. 

Shannon: So just saying, 'cause you don't want some of those pictures- No ... out. It's, it's too much. You don't want it on somebody's phone. It's 

Cate: just- Yeah. It's, it's all too [00:23:00] much. It's, yeah. And that's why I don't do too much on social media.

Cate: Um, but reading this book, I did think about, like, any picture I've ever shared of my kids, and it was always very limited and... But even still, it's just like maybe I should have never shared a ph- and again, private account, but still, maybe I shouldn't have. And I, and I do think about that, even though it was usually, like, talking to them about it, and definitely as I got older, it was just less and less and less because I was like, "No, doesn't need to be out there," and if they're not interested in having any of that shared even with family or friends- Mm

Cate: then it's not my business to. 

Christy: Yeah. 

Cate: So. 

Christy: Yeah. No, it's absolutely true. So a big piece of this book is the religious, um- 

Cate: Yeah ... 

Christy: system that was sort of keeping Natalie trapped. The patriarchy is a big part of this book, that Caleb is supposed to be the head of the household and, like, take charge of everything, and he doesn't do any of that, so- What were some of your thoughts about the faith and the belief systems and the impact of the [00:24:00] patriarchy in Yesteryear?

Shannon: God, that's a big question. That was, I think- It- ... there's a huge commentary on it. Yeah. 

Briana: It just, again, like I'm gonna keep going back to like my Mormons, because this reminded me so much of just different things I've seen, be it like this, the Mormon wives or like Ruby Frankie was also Mormon, or like other things I've seen that involve Mormons.

Briana: Like, there's such a strict... It's just, I'm like, it just feels so confining to me. And there's a part when her sister, I think, and her mother kind of break free from the constraints that they've always had. Mm-hmm. And she's just like, "What are you doing?" And they're so much happier now. But then she lost them because she- Like that's the only thing she knows, and she doesn't, she doesn't get how to get out of that.

Briana: She's- And I don't think she wanted to get out of that ... 

Shannon: she didn't. She's very judgy. Mm-hmm. She's unforgiving. That whole experience when she was in college was very, like, tell-true of like- Yeah ... who the, the person that Natalie is, you know, 'cause that was early on in the book, and the way she judged all these [00:25:00] girls, and it's like, it's college.

Shannon: We don't judge right now because we're all growing, we're making mistakes, we're learning ourselves. Like, and how she like focused so and like honed in on one of the girls and, you know, was like, "Well, I'm so much better than her because of this, this, and this," you know? And then back to that point with like her sister and her mom, and her mom's like- Mm

Shannon: "You can like let go." And she's like, "I can't. I can't believe you did this." Mm-hmm. And it's like, this shouldn't totally control you completely. Like, there is humanity in this. There is forgiveness. Yeah, but that's not part of it. And isn't forgiveness- No ... one of the things- 

Christy: It should be. It should be ... 

Shannon: in her faith?

Shannon: Even though, you know. 

Christy: So we never know exactly- That's the thing, I know ... what, what the faith, what, what religion or what faith she is, and I think the author really was smart in like not pinpointing it to something. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. 

Shannon: Mm-hmm. 

Christy: But I did think it was odd there was no church involved, because- I thought so too

Christy: the religion has such a hold on Natalie- Mm ... that you would think she would still need to be [00:26:00] going back and, and being a part of a organized religion, so I did- Mm ... find that a little interesting. But she feels like she's always on, like she's always on TV in a way. Mm-hmm. She's always on, God's always watching her.

Christy: Mm-hmm. She's being judged all the time, and so she's performing and, and she's performing for no one except that to her, that is, that is the only thing she knows. Like, I'm doing good things because I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna be, you know, my shining star for God. 

Shannon: Mm-hmm. Yeah, but is she doing good things?

Christy: She's not. No. 

Cate: And a lot of people, like this whole book was about performance. 

Christy: Very much. 

Cate: And so she was performing faith too, and she was excellent at lying to herself. 

Christy: Yeah. 

Cate: So she, in her conversations with God, was she tapped into any kind of spirituality? Probably not. It was, it was once again a performance, and maybe that's part of why they didn't include the church, because- Mm

Cate: clearly she wasn't really a [00:27:00] person of faith, whatever. Right. You know, in a, in a- Right ... that feels like a loaded thing to say, but there wasn't a lot of genuine, like, love coming from her. There wasn't any real deep connection to anything but- Mm-hmm ... what she was projecting out into the world. So I don't think, you know, maybe that's why they kept the church out, because she could say whatever she wants.

Cate: She could say she bakes bread every day. She could say she's a great mother. She could say she's a wonderful- Christian woman, but she's not really doing any of those things, so I guess she wasn't attending 

Christy: No ... 

Cate: her church either, maybe. 

Christy: No, no. And it d- it didn't matter to her. 

Cate: No. 

Christy: That that reality didn't make a difference, which is very strange.

Christy: But yeah. It's... I 

Shannon: think if a specific faith church was included, it would be pointing fingers. That's true. And it's taking away, actually, I think, from the bigger part of what's being discussed here. 

Christy: Yes. 

Shannon: And I do think it's we're New England women, so I also think that's interesting in the concept of, like, where is [00:28:00] the idea of the trad wife coming out of?

Shannon: Mm-hmm. Like, you know, like, we see it on social media and these things, but you bring up the Mormons, and that's out in, like, Utah. 

Christy: Mm. 

Shannon: You know? Like, and there's pockets throughout the United States that where, like, cultures are very different than from where we live and how we view this book- 

Cate: Mm-hmm ... 

Shannon: and our commentary on it.

Shannon: But I think a shared thing is that this is a woman of performance, and social media has destroyed her mental health. 

Cate: Yeah. 

Shannon: Besides, I think, other components, but that's why I think the faith thing, it was good to keep it vague. 

Christy: Very vague. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was the best choice. And that worked. I really didn't think about it until after I finished the book, and I'm like, you know, I never really knew what religion she was, and- Yeah

Christy: um, and I did see other people talk about that, and, and then it was on purpose, so I thought that was kind of cool. Mm-hmm. So do you think that modern feminism has kind of created this backlash of, you know, trad wife influencers, where people are, like, going, like, running the other way from [00:29:00] what they view as people trying to have it all?

Christy: And, you know, trying to be the perfect wife, perfect mother- Yes ... have their position, have a career. 

Shannon: I think people are tired, and the girl boss era has ended. Like, we girl bossed too hard, and people just got exhausted, and they kind of just want the simple life, what they think is the simple life. Yeah. Like baking bread, taking care of their kids, and they're like, "Let's just go back to this because I'm exhausted, and that's what I wanna do."

Shannon: That's my opinion, you know? 

Cate: Well, and that's kind of what I was getting to at the beginning, it, that, uh, sort of the dark underbelly, right? Mm-hmm. Like, there's nothing inherently wrong with wanting to raise your children and bake bread- No ... and live off the land, right? But that requires certain very important things, like a partner that isn't controlling you.

Cate: Mm-hmm. It means having resources. Mm. 

Christy: Having access to your own money. Yeah. 

Cate: Having access to your own money, because if your partner dies [00:30:00] or leaves- Mm-hmm ... or any number of things, you know, and also the, that being something that the woman actually wants rather than what is expected. It doesn't- Yeah ... you don't have to go far back.

Cate: I think about my grandmother's generation, where women were regularly drinking in their closets because that was their only... They had no other recourse in the world. They were gonna be home whether they wanted to or not. They were going to bear children whether they wanted to or not. So if, if that's truly what is wanted, and the circumstances around it are healthy, that's one thing.

Cate: But this idea of like, I'm just going to have this life, and everything is gonna be perfect, is false. Mm-hmm. It's a lie. It is a lie. Mm-hmm. And these very young women are falling into it- Yeah ... and may have a very different picture of their life not far down the road, so. 

Christy: Being trapped- 

Shannon: Mm-hmm ... 

Christy: is a very ugly piece of this.

Christy: Yes. 

Shannon: Being trapped, 

Cate: yes. 

Shannon: Girls, always have your own money. Yeah. Yeah. Literally. [00:31:00]

Christy: So our wild card question today is, was Natalie ever truly happy? Do you think she knows wh- what happiness would have looked like or felt like? And do you feel that there's any authentic happiness in the book that may or may not have made it into her feed?

Briana: I don't think she's ever known happiness in her life, and never will, and I hope that her kids find it now without her. I don't think she's ever really been happy. I- I, I agree ... I don't know if she even knows how, like... 

Cate: I don't think she's ever been happy because you can't be happy if you're living a lie.

Briana: Yeah. 

Cate: But I, I do feel like at the end there were, like, little glimmer moments of play with, um- The youngest ... Jinxbug. Yeah. The youngest. And it, it was, it was r- so fleeting that it was gone in a second. Mm-hmm. But in those moments, I was like, wait, is it? Is she connecting to something real? Is she actually having a real moment with a child?

Cate: And then she just [00:32:00] kind of got lost in her illusion again. But that was the only moment I thought it was even possible. But otherwise, no. 

Shannon: I don't think Natalie was ever happy. I think she was miserable. I agree with all of you. Um, she was performing. That's exhausting. And when you're exhausted all the time, are you happy?

Shannon: No. 

Briana: Good point. 

Shannon: Sorry. 

Christy: So this, 

Shannon: we're gonna- That's my opinion ... 

Christy: we're gonna do one more big spoiler, so if you've been listening up to this point and you really were very interested, but we, we don't wanna spoil the book for you, so definitely turn us off for now, but come back after you've finished the book, 'cause you're gonna wanna talk about this.

Christy: All right, so the time travel. When she's back in the 1850s, what did you guys think? 

Briana: I will say I believed it until it was shown that she'd never actually time traveled, and my mind was completely blown. Like, I just kinda had to sit there and be like, "What?" Like, "This has never been real?" And then I was like, oh, it's never been real.

Briana: This totally makes sense. Mm-hmm. But also, that small part of me is like, man, I wish it was real. Mm-hmm. But [00:33:00] then it's like, oh, no, this is, this is the hole you dug yourself in and your family now because of your delusions. 

Shannon: So I was, um, I was shocked at the end. You kinda got a glimpse that you're like, okay, she's not mentally sound.

Shannon: Like, you can kinda, you saw what was happening, but then the unravel of it and her whole... I'm, am I gonna just spoil it- Spoil it ... 'cause we're here right now? Do 

Christy: it. No, it's okay. 

Shannon: Her whole family was playing into this for her, like, mental health to keep the social media going, and so Caleb, old Caleb, was actually really her husband, and then she birthed two more kids, and Clementine ran away.

Shannon: Like, it was, but what? I was literally, like, I was cleaning my house, and I was, like, Swiffering, and I was like, are you serious? Like, oh my God. The, 

Christy: the time travel was more believable. Yeah. 

Shannon: I know. 

Christy: It really 

Shannon: was. It was. But then it goes back to 

Christy: Kate. Performance. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Cate: I wasn't sure what was going on, and I thought, okay, is this some kind of [00:34:00] psychotic break?

Cate: Is this, uh, some, i- is somebody creating this new reality for her? But I wasn't sure until- Especially when 

Christy: she found the microphone ... 

Cate: right. But it was when Caleb said, "You know our kids are not vaccinated, right?" And that's when I was like, wait a second. They didn't have vaccinations? Back then, so what exactly is going on?

Cate: And so but it was definitely worse than I expected. Yeah, it was bad. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It was, it was pretty intense to find that out at the end. Yeah. 

Christy: I think we wanted her to have time traveled, experienced, like, the real 1850s- Yeah. Mm-hmm ... learned her lesson- 

Shannon: And then go 

Christy: home ... and then go home. Mm-hmm. And she didn't.

Cate: No. 

Shannon: No. She learned nothing. That was her lesson. Yeah. That was her lesson. 

Cate: And I have to say, just sort of going back a little bit to the characters that, you know, how if we felt a certain way about any characters- Yes ... and which ones changed or we liked, to me, Clementine was the rock star of this whole book.

Shannon: Yeah. 100%. 100%. 

Cate: And, you know, she's sort of this [00:35:00] snotty, difficult child, but she's angry because she's the only one that sees that their family is living this complete charade, and she, and she sees the truth, and then she's the one- Mm-hmm ... at the end that actually does the thing that needs to be done. She does the hard thing, and it's from a place of, like, love- Mm-hmm

Cate: and truth, and, and all I could think was, like, how... If this situation were to exist in real life, which similar situations do exist, what kind of personal, like, strength and fortitude must it take for a child like that to become an adult that has any kind of- 

Christy: Mm ... 

Cate: wits about them? I 

Christy: can't even imagine. Yeah.

Christy: Yeah. Yeah. Like, normality. 

Cate: Yes. Yes. And just thinking, and all I could think are, these kids are going to have a long road ahead of them, and will they ever have any sort of normalcy? 

Christy: They won't. Yeah. 

Cate: They won't. They won't. Right? And just how devastating that whole thing was. Yeah, I couldn't stop thinking [00:36:00] about all of this- Mm-hmm

Cate: after I was done reading it. 

Christy: And I think that's why this book has been so incredibly popular- Yep ... because people have a lot to talk about. There's a lot to unpack. Um, women are trying to live and have it all, and- Mm-hmm ... or not. Yeah. There, the, there's just a lot happening in 2026, and I think this book was sort of the perfect timing- 

Shannon: I think it's a great 

Christy: timing for it

Christy: for this. 

Cate: Yeah, I think people are ready for this kind of read. I think if it had come out a few years ago, it, it wouldn't be getting quite the same traction- Yeah ... that it's getting now. 

Shannon: Yeah. 

Christy: Would you guys recommend this book, and to who? 

Cate: Absolutely. 

Shannon: I definitely would, but I would be conscious of who I'm recommending it to.

Shannon: There are some point, like, you know, sometimes people don't wanna talk about what we kind of just discussed. It's not like their forte. So I'd have to think about who I was like, "Okay, you loved this book." 

Cate: Yeah. 

Shannon: You guys, we can recommend things to each other. There's some people on our podcast that absolutely would hate this book.

Shannon: Mm-hmm. But would they [00:37:00] hate it because of the commentary that it's making, or, like, would they hate it... That, that, that's the whole thing. This is a discussion book. Mm-hmm. You wanna talk about what is being said here, you know? In 

Christy: fact, it's going to be a book bag that people can check out. 

Shannon: Yep. Oh, yeah. 

Christy: And so if you want your book discussion group to do this book, you can put that book bag on hold and, and, uh, check it out and have it with your group.

Christy: So- Mm-hmm ... just give us a call at the library or check online for sure. 

Briana: I- I felt the same as you. Oh, go- Yeah, no, go ahead. Go ahead. I was gonna say, like, like, we could all recommend it to each other 'cause we kind of have an understanding of our tastes. Mm-hmm. Like, I knew as soon as I finished it I wanted you to read it, 'cause I was like, "We just have to talk about it."

Briana: And that's really what it is. Like, this is meant to be discussed. And, like, for me, like, if I knew s- like, I would never recommend this to my mom 'cause she's more religious than I am, and I feel like she would find this extremely offensive. 

Christy: I'd be the same. 

Briana: Um- Yeah ... or, like, anybody I know that kind of leans more into religion, 'cause I used to, but I don't really anymore.

Briana: But, like, at the gym this morning, I literally told the owner, I was like, "This story's batshit." "And you need to read it- Mm-hmm ... and then talk to me about it." And I know she will because I can f- [00:38:00] I feel comfortable saying, like, "Go for it." 

Shannon: Mm-hmm. 

Briana: I can't, we can't do that with everybody. 

Shannon: Yeah. But- Like you said, your mom.

Shannon: My mom doesn't, like, understand social media. I love you, Mom. But, like, she would not- My mom wouldn't 

Briana: get that 

Christy: either. 

Shannon: That's a good point ... she would not get that. She's like- No ... "What's an influencer?" She doesn't know these things. Wow. So it would just be like, okay, like, then she's losing a huge part of what this book is.

Shannon: Mm-hmm. 

Christy: That's very interesting. 

Shannon: You have to think of- Yes ... like, consciously who you are recommending- Yeah ... it to because of things like that. Like, are they gonna get that, you know? Because- Mm ... do they understand what's happening to women today, like, in a modern way? 'Cause my mom's living the retired life, having a great time.

Shannon: She's just doing her thing, you know? So she's kinda like, "Give me my crime novels." 

Cate: Yeah. 

Christy: I would 

Cate: recommend this to anyone because I feel like this moment that we're living in, there are so many people, whether you're, you're engaging in it or not- Mm-hmm ... this people-living illusion is, is everywhere. You know, this meals aren't complete- Mm-hmm

Cate: unless you take a photo, [00:39:00] and vacations aren't experienced as much as they're curated. Yeah. And, you know, gatherings, social gatherings are posted rather than enjoyed. I feel like everybody can kind of connect with that if they're living around people that are on social media. Yeah. And so I just feel like this moment that we're living in of falseness, everyone needs to look inward more, and I think that this book, whether you fully get it or not, that part we can all get- Mm-hmm

Cate: of like h- being completely externally focused is bad. Mm. Like it's not good for humans. It's exhausting. Yeah. 

Shannon: It's very exhausting. 

Cate: Yes, yes, and so that's why I would be... It's interesting what you say about the religious aspect. I don't have maybe as many religious people in, like structured religion in my- Mm-hmm

Cate: in my life. But even still, I feel like they could get something from it in a way that because she doesn't point fingers- Yeah ... at any particular faith tradition, I think that that's helpful. Mm-hmm. 

Christy: It's time to close the book on today's episode. If you [00:40:00] like what you've heard here, please subscribe to the show.

Christy: This ensures that you won't miss any episodes. If you have a moment, kindly rate and review the podcast. This helps other bookish people like yourself find the show. Tune in next time to find out what else is on the shelf. Bye. Bye. Bye. 

Briana: Yay, that was so good. I'm glad that you got- Yeah ... to be a part of this too.